Liza Rios, Let Me Walk You Through Them Numbers Girlfriend
The lawyer in me hates shit like this. As posted everywhere, Liza Rios, widow of the late, great Christopher Rios p/k/a “Big Pun” is crying broke, telling how she and her kids are living in a shelter and putting Fat Joe on blast, alleging that he somehow ganked her for royalties earned in connection with records released by Pun. She states “financial woes have forced her and her kids to live in a city shelter. Rios says that she received $160k in royalties from her late husband’s music, but that those funds were quickly used up in mortgage payments and childcare.”
Of course, Joe immediately responded: “Immediately after Pun’s death I gave Liza Rios the whole advance of the Endangered Species album, NO ONE but Liza made a dollar off that album. I also gave her the total advance from the publishing company that was due to Big Pun.
I’ve never made a dollar off Big Pun since his passing. This was hundreds of thousands of dollars of frivolous spending, after the second payoff I washed my hands. Since then we have been through 6 lawyers, harassment on various radio stations and online mediums every time she needs more money. I also have legal documents stating that NO ONE is making money off of Big Pun.
I sympathize with Liza, but I have already done enough for her. In these economic times we as parents need to be resilient and do what it takes to provide for our own families.”
$160,000??? Let’s do some effin math. Pun was signed to Terror Sqaud was signed to Relativity Records was signed to Sony. When Joe signed Pun, as a new artist, Joe probably received anywhere from $50,000 to $150,000 of which Pun probably received anywhere from $25,000 to $75,000, depending of course on the size and nature of Joe’s deal with Relativity. Let’s meet in the middle and say $50,000. Not much but believe me, as a new artist in the mid 1990’s, that’s not bad for a rapper with NO TRACK RECORD. Pun’s first album, Capital Punishment sells over 1,000,000 units [||] and is certified platinum. Like I’ve said before, back in the ’90’s certified platinum wasn’t all that, it just got an artist in the game and convinced the label that that act was worth at least a second album. That’s all that meant. No Bentley’s, no planes, yachts or mansions, just a second bite at the apple. So after sales, Sony takes their cut from the top, and trust, their cut is significant. Whatever bits of dough is left gets paid to Relativity. Relativity recoups EVERYTHING from Terror Squad, videos, travel, promotion, wardrobe, recording costs, Joe and Pun’s sizable eating expenses, EVERYTHING and then some. So now the dough is looking like pretzel bits which then goes to Terror Squad to break up. TS takes them pretzel bits and tries to soak up whatever expenses they paid directly to Pun, like his initial advance which I said would be around $50k, and after whatever’s left they pay him an additional $50k. So let’s add that $50k to the number I said before. Big Pun is walking around with about $100k in connection with his first album. If TS did a co-publishing deal with Pun, meaning they shared in his publishing income, Pun prolly received another $25-$50k on top of the $100k. Let’s round that out to $130k. Throw in some show money in which Pun might have been billing at least $10k per show and Pun while alive was making some serious coin. Off course you have to factor his manager’s fee which was most likely 20% of all them above-referenced figures. Then there’s always that new artist factor, how almost EVERY new artist that comes into some new money automatically blows that shit on the frivolous car, jewelry, eats, wife and mistress expenses, plus mad visits to Sue’s Rendevous. Trust that Liza had no complaints when shit was popping, other than them gun butting incidents.
Everybody being happy at the success of Capital Punishment, Pun’s lawyers, having more leverage, come at Joe, TS and Relativity hard [||] to re-negotiate Pun’s deal. Relativity ponies up more money for TS, Joe gets a stack and Pun probably walks away with anywhere from $100 – $250k up front for his second project. Pun passes on February 7th, 2000 and because he’s not around to put the work in necessary to effectively promote his second record Yeeeah Baby, released shortly after on April 4, 2000, the album under performs and sells over 500,000 units, certified as a gold album. If platinum was meh in the ’90’s, gold status most definitely pissed off the TI’s in the Sony building. Pissed at the fact that Pun walked away with a sizeable advance and expenses (more costly videos, bigger marketing and promotion costs, etc) that they were not in a position to recoup from. Well, Sony most likely did recoup dollar for dollar with profit, but how them deals are structured from the top down, even if they made money, Relativty, TS and Pun were most likely unrecouped. You still with me?
Joe, still mourning the death of his compadre and main bread winner, plus having some un-released masters featuring performances of Pun fights with Relativty and Sony on TS and Pun’s behalf to honor the remainder of Pun’s renegotiated agreement to release a third album and pay Pun’s estate whatever advances monies Pun would have received had he still been alive. Sony trying to maximize on sales, as well as Relativity agree and pony up $160k to Liza Rios for Pun’s third and last album Endangered Species, released on April 3, 2001. Endangered Species as we all know, tanks and sells brick. Joe, TS, Relativity and Sony make no money, Liza Rios is eating steak with that arroz con pollo. Ten years later she pops up crying broke.
People, I’ve seen these scenarios hundreds of times. Different actors, but always the same script. Not that I’m heartless in connection with ole girl’s current woes, but that shit is nothing new. Not saying Joe is any types of angel, but like that other man said, men lie, women lie, numbers don’t.
No shots were fired in the making of this post.
UPDATE: There’s some stating that Big Pun was signed initially to Loud/ RCA. That’s what I remember as well but all I’m pulling up in my research for this post is that the Pun records fall under Relativity/Sony. As there was a corporate merge between Sony and BMG (RCA’s parent company) in 2004, all Pun records are listed as being released within in the Sony system. Still and all, the numbers breakdown remain the same. I take my work here at the Daily Mathematics very seriously.
As should Peter Rosenberg. SHOTS!
Now THAT is what you call Daily Mathematics.
Good read.
YO, I am no fan of Fat Joe but, that is kind of how I figured it went down, even though I dont beleive him when he says he hasn’t made no type of bread off of pun since he died.
I mean I don’t shorty at all, but I do get some type of feeling that she hasnt even tried to get any type of job since he passed.
Stop crying broke phi broke and do something about it!!
this was my assumption before even hearing a damn thing.
YO Combat jack on the real, what a nigga like Prospect or Cuban Linx get for being featured on Capitol Punishment? do they get anything now like yearly, like an actor gets??? no naive
Prospect should change his name btw, YOU WAS A PROSPECT In 1998, BY NOW YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PHENOM/PTP’er, but since you just dropped that WARRIORZ video to get your Viral marketing up, Prospect youre just a fucking Never was/Never Will be b/k/a Washed UP!
Shots Fired
Yo so who got them ends when I copped that Pun shirt off Ebay???
got damn Africans run that hunh?? they get my email too.
Somebody tried to hack the god’s paypal. THe whole internet game is bunk
Shots Fired to those who may have been caught in the crossfire, Like my BABA says “DONT SHOOT in DARKNESS”. No Charlie Murphy
^ what he said
Dope accurate write up on the Rios’ situation. However as accurate those estimates were… there is always an x-factor (bx factor? Bah)
When Pun was hot… he was everywhere. I believe he set the record for features by an artist in a year (which may or may not have been eclipsed since) and if Pun was getting 10k a show, I would guess he would see at least double that per feature.
That era for new artists meant platinum was barely a success and publishing was typically an after thought, but someone ate that publishing up and while it was brief Pun was on a hell of a run.
Either way though it has been nearly a decade… she can’t expect to live off his legacy forever when some rappers can’t live of their legacy themselves. Sorry for the long comment, but this post got me hype.
Props
Yo BK head over to Twitter(no homo??) Combat Jack said maybe 5k a feature if niggas want you on their shit. DMX Canibus and Pun ruled 1998.
as the wife of a struggling artist (who is, of course, not planning to be struggling foreverrrrrr), i consider it one of my wifely duties to make sure MY money is correct.
fuck it… that is one of my living & breathing duties cuz I got a kid. rapper-husband money or no dead-husband money, my KID still needs clothes on his back, food in his belly & a roof over his head. when that is your priority, you have to push pride aside when you’re asking if they want fries with that.
But $160K ain’t shit really. I’m not saying Joe was responsible for taking care of Pun’s fam but he coulda continued to look out, especially since he always claims he & Pun were “Brothers from another Mother”.
Joe cares about Joe. Period.
And this chick is no saint either. She takes advantage on every opportunity to shit on Pun’s legacy. When you think about it, she deserves what she’s got. It’s Pun’s kids I feel sorry for.
^”I’m not saying Joe was responsible for taking care of Pun’s fam but he coulda continued to look out, especially since he always claims he & Pun were “Brothers from another Mother”. Joe cares about Joe. Period.”
I hear you and maybe he did by pushing for that 3rd album. Who knows what Joe was working with himself financially when Pun died? All that floss is smoke and mirrors. He probably did his best for Pun’s kids and when Liza kept asking for more, more aggie each time, he finally was like “you know what, no disrespect to Pun, but mother eff this bish!”
That’s how the story is playing out in my head.
Then again, I wasn’t there.
But I seen it play out all types of ways, but the same story. Artists cry broke behind closed doors on GP.
Great Read, Pun is rollng over in his grave right now smh over dis crazy mess. You definitely put perspective on the situation, good looks big homie!
She needs to pull herself up. It’s like she feels entitled… when realistically, without Pun here to perform, I doubt there’s any money being made in his name at this point. He’s not selling massive amounts of merchandise or posthumous albums. She comes off as one of those people who don’t really know the biz, so she feels that because he sold records 10 years ago, she should still be eating off that… when really, that wasn’t even where the money was coming from in the first place.
I think another part of this comes from the fact that she was pretty much allowed to lay back when Pun was out there making the money and she doesn’t wanna deal with the fact that it’s over. If it’s bad to the point where they’re living in a shelter, it’s def. time to pull herself up, get on her game, and make her OWN money to support herself and the kids.
On Joe’s part, I do think he should at least look out for the kids like he said he was going to. But that’s where it stops. He doesn’t owe it to Liza to put food on their table.
-D!
You would have more of a case if you distinguished between “shipped” and “sold” albums, cause sometimes people go platinum, and half of their sales are sitting in the Best Buy warehouse.
http://www.SarcasticDBag.Blogspot.com
She shoulda moved out of nyc where that money woulda stretched out longer. That’s wack that she ended up in the shelter but its also wack to play the emotion card trying to shame Joe into hooking her back up.
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damn…this story is messed up all the way around. Written well but there is no winners in this one. Just a sad but true learning experience
If I recall correctly Pun and Liza had caked off lovely over suing the city (can’t remember the exact details) BEFORE he got put on by Fat Joe That’s why he went from being svelte to BIG Pun (think it was in a Vibe article back in the day). Makes it seem apparent that Liza is poor at managing money. 160K? You can see women holding down their families off a fraction of that loot.
A good portion of Joe’s live set are Pun songs. Shouldnt she get a small portion of those club dates Joe does?
Since Twitter seems to be down. Allow me to celebrate a freshly minted new Internets catchprase:
“Somebody tried to hack the god’s paypal.” – FarouqFux
That’s right up there with “You better body that latte’”.
I love you Internets!!
Plus, as @Freshalina (sorry to mix tweets w/ business) RT’ed last night, Fat Joe is offering the LEAD video chick in his next video $500 dollars. That’s not even make it rain money. That’s a passing down wouth summer storm money. 5 minutes under the highway overpass and then you start driving again rain. I say all that to support CJ’s smoke and mirrors comment. Joey coulda been dead poppped at the time (shout to my NYers for keeping me slanged up)
Mr. Ampgeez, I know I shyt on your comments from time to time (at Nah and BC, etc..), so this won’t be new. No shots, but Joey is the last rapper I would take e-shots at. Dude is in every city all the time, with no bodygaurds etc. Maybe I’m naive, but I gotta respect dude, even though he makes mostly throwaway trendy music.
(Is twitter working again?)
Can we stop with (II) shit? It’s getting fucking stale and annoying.
*applauds this post*
Combact Jack strikes again.
Thoughts on Fat Joe’s interview this morning?
[...] Rosenberg was starting up concerning Rosenberg’s doo-doo’ing of a post Combat Jack made. Ah well, I’ll catch up in a bit, on to this [...]
You guys are hilarious with the “he shoulda taken care of the kids” shit. In other words he should have taken care of them all because that’s how it works. Ask Kelis and ask Kimora Lee Simmons who have wifey status, heck ask Shaniqua “Maquis is my son” Tomkins who tried to reach for even more scratch and got smacked.
He gave you your due. Someone should have told her
Bitch get a J-O-B
As always, well done Jack!
good stuff
pun was a millionnnnaire
then pun dies… R.I.P
liza is broke now but
sorry liza it’s ya fault
that’s my point !
ps: here, joey crack :
hXXp://www.rapradar.com/true-story/fat-joe-interview-cipha-sounds-a-rosenberg.html#yvComment
Thanks for dropping this. I try to explain to people all the time how these dudes are not wealthy.
Also, at the guy above you responded to saying, “Joe could have still looked out”
This little write up should let people put two and two together about how much money these other rappers make. Do people think Joe’s actually rich? Not rich enough to support another family at the same time as his own.
Now look at the Rick Ross’ of the world. The Jeezy’s of the world. And every other artist who’s not putting up T.I. units at this time. Yeah, they’re doing better than us, but Andre 3000 said it best on Elevators…
“true I got more fans than the average man but not enough loot to last me/
to the end of the week I live by the beat like you live check to check/
if it don’t move your feet then I don’t eat so we like neck to neck”
interesting post man, nice breakdown of the numbers. Pun’s wife clearly wasted all that initial payment thinking she could get more in the future.
one thing though, Pun was signed to Loud/RCA/BMG, not Relativity.
heres Fat Joe live at Palladium, NYC in 96. He brings out Pun (then still Big Dog Punisher) halfway through:
http://djstepone.blogspot.com/2009/04/fat-joe-live-palladium-nyc-1996.html
^ “one thing though, Pun was signed to Loud/RCA/BMG, not Relativity.”
That’s what I’m thinking but all I’m pulling up in my research for this is the Pun records fall under Relativity/Sony. Maybe there was a joint venture between Loud and Relativity, since Joe was initially signed to Relativity. Then there was the merger between Sony and BMG. Still and all, the numbers breakdown remain the same.
Wasn’t Pun’s son in a rap group with Benzino’s kid or some shit? Back in the mid-to-early ’00s?
Maybe they should get that crackin’ again. Just sayin.
But at some point she has to realize that she just can’t live off him forever. He was never an artist at the level of Pac or Biggie, so living lavishly of his legacy just isn’t feasible. She should probably get a job. Bottom line.
It comes down to artists and people in general not being financially prudent. If the last check she received was for 160K TEN years ago, then people need to do the math. I can divide. (c) Hova
Pun was released on Loud. Joe had his deal with Relativity. Big fish eat little fish in the biz as you know…Whatever profits he garnered under the Loud umbrella were probably shared with the suits at Relativity.
Jack, your due diligence in creating this piece is respected and appreciated.
Good fuckin read.
1.
“…but that those funds were quickly used up in mortgage payments and childcare.”
Perhaps I just don’t have all the facts, but seriously, at what point do you maybe put the house on the market? And what the hell are you so busy w/ that you need all that “childcare”. I hope we’re not talking about food and clothes here….
My point is, the breadwinner just passed. Does it not resonate that a lifestyle change is coming? $160K has to go much farther IMO, if you’re not talking about getting a job. Whether or not you’re of a mind that you deserve more $, your kids shouldn’t be in a shelter.
There’s at least one mom in that same shelter that wants to knock her head off.
C/S Polotron…
Good work on this CJ, official tissue actual factuals…
The truly sad think in this whole shit is how unprepared rap niggas (and the peoples) are ill prepared for parenting and coping skills. Always looking for the next hand out of “What they’re owed”. Nas put it the best “I ain’t your fuckin’ father!”
Since when is Joe really obligated to anything? Yeah it would be the altruistic thing, but he’s really not in the pocket for anything, especially if it compromises providing and maintaining his own shit. Smartest comment I heard up in here is that “maybe she should have moved out of NYC to make them dollars stretch”. Hey why do you think Joe plays Miami so hard? Smart move when it comes to stretching them rap dollars. Also Joe got his own kids to feed, including one with special needs (and since there is no healthcare in hip-hop I’m sure those bills are a monster). Pun’s wife though she was gonna be the Real Housewife of the BX or something. Quit sounding like a butthurt member of a rapper’s entourage, and go out there and do what real folks do and find a job…
That how I understood it, CJ. Initially they were all under Relativity (even The Beatnuts & Common) before that label folded and Big Pun later found a home @ Loud/RCA. We all know that Pun’s publishing (Let Me Show You) was administered by Joseph Cartagena Publishing and Joe began answering his own phone years ago (management). All of the numbers you put up made perfect sense. You even accounted for the incidentals.
It you just bright to fuck with folks that were there in the trenches & know of what the fuck they’re speaking on. SMH @ Rosenberg
One.
More Fiyah! What’s Mr. Roseberg hollering?
*daps CJack & the commenters* – interesting post & comments
CJack, go ahead & ether this dude Rosenberg. Rosenberg is somewhat competent at his work, but often a total incompetent douche.
Rosenberg once said “Black Thought & the Roots were boring”, Rosenberg “never bothered really listening to Roots discography thoroughly” & Rosenberg put meh-to-wack rappers like “Lil Wang is superior to Black Thought”. Then this douche Rosenberg figuratively sucks off Questlove & does some special interview show with Questo, fock outta here.
The Rosenberg entitlement is mad douche also. Hip hop is not some ultra-specialized field like nuclear physics where you need a PhD to have a valid opinion on the subject. Even if it were, cats like CJack who have significant relevant lawyer work experience in the field, would be infinitely more qualified to discuss this Big Pun payment topic, than this douche Rosenberg. *smh*
“if skills sold truth be told” ultra-knowledgable cats like Dart Adams would have a paid fulltime job in hip hop commentary, not arrogant incompetent douches like Rosenberg
about Liza Rios
I cosign she should get a job & live off her salary. Move to some some lower cost suburb to make that happen.
Or she could take an alternative I don’t think anyone has mentioned.
If she can maintain at least a low bar on looks (3/10), & have a pleasant 7/10 personality & effing skills/willigness…
Liza should’ve been able to snag/marry some Big Pun stan/herbish dude that has some stable 40K+ job. Liza & her kids could live off of dude.
Hey just keeping it real even if it’s not PC & stating the obvious: some significant percentage of women cop that Mrs degree as an “alternative job”.
WAIT, the above description describes Rosenberg! It might not be too late for Liza to make that happen w/ Rosenberg!
So Joe “gave” Liza the whole advance (that she was intitled to in the first place) as the final payment on all Pun’s assets, music, albums, etc? I can understand Pun not being recouped from the advances he recieved but there still should be some type of publishing income. And if there isn’t any publishing income, Liza should know. Every contract, document, etc should be right in front of her. Joe is definitely right about her being more responsible but the average person wouldn’t know hot to flip or stretch 160K into a profit.
Look if Liza really cared about Pun she would have intervened with his health issues back when they were literally living high off the hog…
i agree. this is not to pile on Liza Rios, because really both she and Chris were HORRIBLE with money, considering how much dough they had their hands on. she had no problems with eating out every day with Pun and blowing mad money. they should’ve been living off whatever money it was mentioned that Pun was awarded from the city in the magazine article–today. really though, what the hell was on her mind all of these years?
I couldn’t really follow all those numbers, but I can comment on the Loud and Sony situation. Fat Joe was signed to Relativity, Big Pun signed to Loud Records. Later on Sony purchased Loud’s catalog. So Sony does own Big Pun stuff now, which is why when you looked everything up it says Sony. So regardless what people say about your article, you are right.
Oh and Liza needs to sit her ass down. She ran through that money and that since it was royalties she would always get paid….ain’t nobody buying Big Pun albums no more, she thought income would always come in.
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It’s amazing how so many with little to know information or background concerning Pun’s finances are so quick to offer opinions concerning what Fat Joe could and should do.
Whether he’s a saint or not, how long should he be responsible for her welfare?
Good drop Combat Jack!
this chick bettr get on her hustle!bitch right a book abt ur life n stop givin interviews shittin on pun for free!i dnt feel sorry for this hoe…she comes off as a fat lazy roaching ass bitch!trifling ass got her kids n a shelter waiting on a handout..its bitches out here with double the amount of kids she have and they out here MAKING IT!bitch pun left u with ways to get paid,u just to trifling to realize hw to get tht money!
C/S Polotron…
Good work on this CJ, official tissue actual factuals…
The truly sad think in this whole shit is how unprepared rap niggas (and the peoples) are ill prepared for parenting and coping skills. Always looking for the next hand out of “What they’re owed”. Nas put it the best “I ain’t your fuckin’ father!”
Since when is Joe really obligated to anything? Yeah it would be the altruistic thing, but he’s really not in the pocket for anything, especially if it compromises providing and maintaining his own shit. Smartest comment I heard up in here is that “maybe she should have moved out of NYC to make them dollars stretch”. Hey why do you think Joe plays Miami so hard? Smart move when it comes to stretching them rap dollars. Also Joe got his own kids to feed, including one with special needs (and since there is no healthcare in hip-hop I’m sure those bills are a monster). Pun’s wife though she was gonna be the Real Housewife of the BX or something. Quit sounding like a butthurt member of a rapper’s entourage, and go out there and do what real folks do and find a job…
Absolute Co-Sign.
And if joe wasn’t keeping pun’s legacy alive, why did big pun did a tour in a nightclub in miami with DJ Khaled in 1998.
Why did Fat Joe & DJ Khaled paid homage to pun when they did a video for make in rain?
Rain Scenes anyone?
Liza Rios should read this CJ.
Who is this douchebag Rosenberg anyway? In another lifetime I did some business journalism– talked to major dot com players before the crash and also early debunkers: analysts, venture capitalist, etc. No biggie, it was just a paycheck BUT…
It motherfucking taught me a lot about biz world rhetoric and its complexities, and to question EVERYTHING you see on the surface. I’m somewhat curious then what experience Rosenberg has to question CJ’s #?s.
I’ll be at Big Daddy Kane (with live band) Saturday at Prospect Park if somebody wants to drop the knowledge.
Where the fuck Peter Rosenberg when “Raw” dropped?
[...] = true; sr_adspace_type = "graphic"; Powered by Max Banner Ads Liza Rios, Let Me Walk You Through Them Numbers Girlfriend [...]
Say word…Good piece, great analysis…