The Big Picture
Last week, there were a lot of Big L tributes and salutations going on across the net, as there usually are every February 15th. As a fan of L ever since the “Yes You May” remix, it’s always good to see him get the accolade he never really got when he was here. By now, everyone knows how he was thisclose to signing with Roc-A-Fella, and how he was rebuilding a buzz in late-’98/early-’99 off the strength of “Ebonics”. Today, he’s respected and regarded as one of the all-time greats who was on the verge of stardom before having his life cut short.
That said, I’ve taken a few things into account about L’s career and where it was headed. For all the “he coulda been the greatest” talk that goes on, how many of these same people woulda let L be great if he blew up?
If you’ve been a longtime hip-hop fan, you’ve likely met other longtime hip-hop fans as well. And if you have, you’re familiar with the contingent that dislikes almost anything considered “mainstream”. They don’t like their favorite artists being slept-on, but when one of them does blow, they tend not to like ‘em as much. They’re particularly cautious of seeing their favorites associating with “commercial” artists, labels, producers, etc. To their credit, they’re usually the first to acknowledge a talented MC when they hear one. On the same token, they’re also the first to disown that same MC once he/she does something they don’t consider “real”. They’ve become known over the years as “backpackers”, and as much as their love for hip-hop is to be commended, they can also be some of the most elitist muh’fukkas you ever wanna meet. They also happen to make up a nice portion of what was L’s core fanbase at the time of his death.
So begs the questions. How great would Big L have been in their eyes if he actually DID reach the level of success he deserved? If he lived to sign with the Roc and put out a massively popular single or album, how long would it have been before his underground following started scrunchin’ their faces up? As lyrically talented as L was, his content wasn’t too far removed from that of them niggas that the “real hip-hop” kids hated in ‘99. Sure, he was known as the “devil’s son” who rhymed about beatin’ niggas with wooden blocks and whatnot. At the same time, a fair amount of his late-’90s output included references to jewelry, cash, and scoopin’ chicks as well. And if there’s one thing them “backpack” dudes hate, it’s hearing a rapper tell them how he’s stylin’ on ‘em, makin’ more money than ‘em, and fuckin’ their girl. It was OK for L because he was the slept-on MC from DITC who just happened to be incredible. But I don’t know if they’d have liked it as much coming from the popular MC from Roc-A-Fella with a hit on the radio.
Let’s do the history- how many greats have blown up on a commercial level without catching flack from their original street/underground fanbase? Remember that guy Biggie Smalls, who nobody seemed to have anything against until the Versace shades and Coogi sweaters replaced the army jackets? How ’bout Nasty Nas, who was the end-all be-all until he acquired that new alias and started droppin’ radio hits? Then there’s that Shawn Carter, who’d gone from droppin’ a half-assed verse on L’s debut album in ‘95 to going 5x platinum in ‘99. That nigga’s been LITERALLY called everything but a man of God. All of them (and many others) remained great lyricists, but because they didn’t do what the “real heads” WANTED them to do, they caught backlash. It’s not that they didn’t drop some questionable shit here and there, but you woulda thought they’d reached Silkk the Shocker levels of wackness from the way they got criticized. That coulda easily happened to L just the same.
Potential haters aside, it woulda been interesting to see what the future was for L with his second major-label look. There’s a good chance that he (like DMX before him and 50 Cent after him) would have been another artist that Columbia Records dropped the ball on, but went on to greater fortune. Of the most prominent “fallen soldiers” of hip-hop, he’s the “what if?” one. Unlike Big, ‘Pac, JMJ, or Pun, there’s always a question mark hanging over his name as to whether or not he would have had his time on top of the game. But because he didn’t strike me as an artist who’d have been opposed to doing the same things others caught heat for, I wonder if the love woulda stayed the same.
-D!
I think even if L blew up he would have kept his lyricism intact, and thats really what the “backpackers” or real heads would care about. Theres a lot of emcees out there that were dope in the underground, blew up, had a few good albums and then fell off. They just run out of material or run out of the hunger cause they are content and are just going through the motions and whats expected of them by others including their labels who pump money into their artistry which becomes like a factory or assembly line. The thing is real heads can see when an emcee doesn’t have love of his/her artform anymore. There are plenty of emcees who have come from the underground and continue to drop gems on the regular, despite an occasional hit or miss. Those emcees are the ones who become legends.
So… this was one big subliminal at backpackers with Big L window dressing?
Nope. It was a ‘what if’ in reference to Big L’s career and what may or may not have happened if he attained some form of mainstream acceptance.
No shot at ‘backpackers’ at all. I’m not even a fan of that terminology at this point, but I’m familiar with the opinions/views of those who fall into that category.
-D!
whenever presented with a backpack vs. “mainstream” situation, i almost always refer back to greg tate’s poem “what is hip hop pt. 1″…
“hip-hop is dope knowledge. the only known antidote for prime time sensory deprivation.
there is no such thing as alternative hip-hop, because the only alternative to hip-hop is dead silence,
and we all know such silence signifies a lack of breath”
BIG L REST IN PEACE (most these rap catts don’t know where it started where it came from)
I guess. But once the public gets on something it really does die.
I believe it has a lot to do with the narrowmindedness of the culture, as a whole. It’s not like in Hollywood, where Deniro could play in ‘Goodfellas’ & ‘Meet The Parents’ without catching critical flack. Hip Hop is unilateral. Any movement “outside the box” is looked at as turning one’s back on their fans. Think BDK when ‘A Taste Of Chocolate’ came out.
But, it goes with the territory. & for all intents & purposes, Lamont would’ve most likely travelled a path similar to Jay-Z & Big. After all, who doesn’t like getting paid? If they stick to what got them in the door, then we say they lack creativity & drive. Catch 22. Like somebody said above, those that straddle the line indefinitely truly earn their titles as “the greats”.
You can look at Jay’s smugness to get an idea where Big & Big L’s heads would’ve been, had they lived to achieve their glory.
“Fuck haters. I’m eatin’” or something to that effect.
Right!
I tend to feel like the underground is just as fickle as the mainstream fans are at times, just the other way around. Hip-hop in general has an unpredictable audience no matter which “side” an artist chooses to dedicate himself/herself to.
But yeah, I could see L thinking along those same lines, regardless of how lyrically talented he was. As said by the man himself- “playa haters givin’ me harsh looks/ but I’m tryna see paper like Garth Brooks” and “I’m gettin’ money while you broke cats is keepin’ it real”… he pretty much had the Jay/BIG mentality without the Jay/BIG popularity… it def. woulda increased had he blown up, as would the “haters”.
-D!
I think you’re right about what would’ve happened (if he managed to start landing those big, crossover hits in the first place – it’s not like that happened for Finesse or a host of other dope, highly respected MCs)… but I think you’re wrong to put it on the fans. If Big L did live on to really blow up large, he’d have to be maintaining that success with auto-tune club songs, collabs with Fergie and Asher Roth, switching producers from Showbiz and Buck Wild to Scott Storch and Timbaland, etc.
It’s not like fans just arbitrarily turn on an artist when he blows up (well, ok… maybe some do). The artists change first, disappoint the fans, and then they turn. I don’t think most heads would’ve had a problem with “letting L be great,” so much as we’d be standing by getting increasingly frustrated as he drifted further and further from greatness.
But, honestly, I doubt he ever would’ve gotten that large to begin with. I don’t see “Ebonics” as evidence that L was on the cusp of the next “Hard Knock Life” and “Oochie Wally.” He’d probably be more on the level that MCs like OC or Master Ace are on: maintaining a steady and respectable underground career that gets a lot of buzz when he gets it right and stalls out on ughh when he doesn’t (which, I don’t know about you, but I’d have prefered anyway).
Naahh I think L was a different kind of artist to the likes of OC, Masta Ace, Lord Finesse etc. He defo had more in common, career wise, with Pun. Songs like Put It On showed he was willing to make that jump. If Jay could do it i think L could have as they (minus the hustling subject matter) are very similar artistically.
The freestyle session where he outshined Jay Z really put it into perspective that L was really that sharp. That and those Children of the Corn sessions…….. raw flamboyant style!
I think Big L would have kept his same Steeze.I mean after one listen to-”I don’t understand it”..he clearly knew that something wasn’t right with the industry after emcees turned into rappers while enjoying so-called [POP-ularity].
I’m not sayin’ he woulda made wack shit… but a lot of rappers didn’t make wack shit and STILL got dissed by their original fanbase when they blew up and made music that got mainstream attention. Nas made a record about changing the world and giving power to hood niggas and muhfukkas called him wack.
-D!
Yeah man, dead tha “backpacker” bullshyt.
That term was used to downplay any objective views. Back in the latter ’90s, you had groups of sell-out ass motherphuckers, most of whom did not want to hear any objecting views on their music. So, what did they do? Create an escape latch for their bullshyt.
Allow me to provide an example, do you recall the Boondocks episode where Riley tries to join the Lethal Injection crew and he had to pass the “Agreeability Test” to gain admission. And there was one guy who said he didnt like the beat, then Gangstalicious kick his ass out for having a differing view on the production. Well, while this scene in a cartoon show is a comedic exaggeration, there is some truth to it. There were people who were so arrogant and self-absorbed that if you expressed any opposition to their musical composition, you were deemed a “hater,” a term I abhor to this day, or a “backpacker.” Now, if you use the word “biotch” over thirty times on one album, one has to question your level of creativity.
While this article is good, I have to question your reasoning, or credibility. Your a journalist, right? Or, at least a blogger, which a modern-day version of a journalist, at least somewhat. Well then, you did not provide a thorough enough explanation on all your examples of the once underground darlings turned pop sensations, and their rise and fall from the undergrounds grace.
Lets start with Biggie. No one, at least to my knowledge, opposed Biggies ascension to mainstream stardom. It was only the uptight, arseholes who really opposed his popularity. And they were not “backpackers,” they were just “I dont like anything” motherphuckers. The only credible complaint they could make was that everyone touting Biggie as the East Coast’s savior was a fallacy, which is true to some extent. Because, you had the boot camp clique, de la, and many more who held it down on the mainstream level, but their presence did not translate into sales (to this day i think soundscan is easy to manipulate). So, for all those arseholes, I would argue the point that he did save the East Coast from their, up until then, lackluster sales record. And if it doesnt make dollars it doesnt makes sense to corporat America, which is totally undestandable, business is business. So, yes, Biggie did save the East Coast in terms of corporate Americas interest in signing East Coast acts, a la DMX or Jay-Z.
Now, Nas when came out with Illmatic, a classic of all classics. All the tracks were on point, well balanced, you know, knowledge powered lyrics with a dash of the street essence. And then, when he came out with It was Written, all of a sudden its all street. And motherphuckers in New York knew Nas wasnt a real street nigga. Now, holding down your building in the projects is totally different from trying to be Al Capone on a record. But, hey, it is art, and he was allowed to express himself however he liked. Plus, most niggas rooted for him out of love for his first work, which should have earned him way more money. So, no one wanted to see him fail on this one, out of fear of losing him forever due to the nature of business’ neverending need to maximize profits. Yet, we all knew a majority of that album was bullshyt. But, niggas did love the jewels on there: Take it in blood, Black girl lost, I gave you power, Live nigga rap, If I ruled the world, Shootouts, The intro, and Street dreams. The rest of that shyt was WACK, pretentious and contrived. Fast-foward to “I am” and you get another okay album, with much more wack shyt, totally devoid of all knowledge. I am not going to even discuss “Nastradomus” lol. It wasnt until nigga, Jay Z in particular, called him out on his bullshyt and returned to his root on Stillmatic.
Now, Jay, he is another one we rooted for. Reasonable Doubt was a hidden jewel. I had to be put on to that shyt by my cousin, because I didnt trust in the fact that I could tolerate a whole album of bum-skiddy-bum Das-Efx type rap (that was Jays initial style). But, once I listened to that shyt, I was hooked. That nigga broke down Brooklyn to a T on that joint, no holds bar, no cut, no chaser. Then he came out with the second album, which I cant even remember the title, and that shyt was OKAAAAY. Even he admitted to that shyt being wack, with that Sunshine single, you had to call him on it, he deliberately tried to go commercial. Fast-forward to Hard Knock Life, by this time I was done with Hip-Hop, but I remember it being all money, cash and hoes raps. And I did notice how he started stealing lines, like a motherphucker. Something unseen before by that time. Niggas never saw someone take everyones rhyme and interweave them into their own rhyme to make a new rhyme. It was hilarious. But, see, many listeners didnt know because he would take vague lines, shyt you would here on rare NYC mixtapes or freestyles from the Wake up Show or Armstrong and Bobbito. And then, he dropped that other album after the Hard Knock Life, I cant remember the title, and we all knew that shyt was WACK. But, who cares, right? We had MOP, Def Jux, Stones Throw, AZ, and many more to satiate that Hip Hop appetite. So, let jay go phuck with molley wringwall and them, that nigga is trash. And maybe, he was always trash with assistance from outside influences, a la LA’s and NYC’s thriving underground lyricist. But then, he came to his senses on The Blueprint, which everyone, “backpacker” and thug nigga alike, loved from the bottom of their heart. Now, thats the Jay we wanted, knowledge mixed with street. And it wasnt knowledge in terms of his blackness, just common sense shyt we all know, but have no one to express it to. And then, you fast-forward to today, and we have the jay from those Wack albumm days, a man trying to find his place. A place he doesnt have to find because he is the essence of this shyt we call Hip-hop, no different from kane, ra, or krs. He just needs to go back to the pen and pad. Yes, Jay used to write, he even admitted to having to rework Can I Live, and that shyt is way too complicated to try to even memorize. Adn thats what his needs to do, go back to the pen and pad and thoroughly think out a rhyme. Because all these 1, 2 and 3 rhymes just wont cut it, I dont care how well you dress it up. Thats why Kanye killed him on Run this Town, Kanye thought that shyt through thoroughly, he had that prepared, believe me, I know.
In conclusion, its not about disliking an MCs rise to the top, but its about the road taken to the top. If a dude stays grounded in their origins, yet tries to broaden his fanbase, then so be it, best of luck. But, dont try to pour syrup on shyt and then try to convince us its pancakes. Thats when motherphuckers pull your card. And it is well within anyones right to declare a grievance with a persons performance, artist or not. So, if L wouldve done the same thing, then, yes, people would have called him on it. But, all would have been forgiven had he came back to his roots, the same way Jay did with Bluepring (one) and Nas did with Stillmatic.
I wouldn’t consider myself a “journalist”… journalism is mostly about objectivity and simply reporting facts. I’m a blogger that drops opinions supported by facts- I try to keep a balance between the two in most of my entries. I’ve been following hip-hop since I was a kid, so I don’t feel I lack credibility there. Granted, I’ve never been as “inside” as Jack or Riggs have been, but I have been a fan who’s done a gang of research/knowledge on the genre/culture.
As far as the term “backpacker”, I’m not crazy about it myself, as stated in my reply to Ed. But I do feel there are people who fall into the category that a “backpacker” is defined as being. I’m speaking from experience and conversations I’ve had with different folk, whether in person or on the internet. Just as there are people whose ears are closed off to anything not deemed “hot” by mainstream outlets, there are also people who are against anything but underground/street shit. And that’s their prerogative to feel that way. My main point was that in the event that L just HAPPENED to make something deemed as “commercial” by this section of the audience, how long would it have been before they decided they didn’t like him anymore? I don’t think it’s as unlikely as some are willing to believe.
I used Big, Nas, and Jay as examples because they were the prime examples of artists that went from being respected on the underground level to being seen as “traitors”, simply because they didn’t do what THEY wanted them to do. None of them ever said they wanted to do nothing but cater to what underground heads liked. In fact, everything people grew to hate about Jay was part of his repertoire from the get-go. In his case, it got to a point where it wasn’t even about whether he was dope or not, it was just ‘oh, he talks about money and hoes’… meanwhile, he’d BEEN doing that. I could see if he went from one extreme to the next, but that wasn’t the case. So bringing it back to Big L, who’s to say that wouldn’t have happened to him like it happened to Jay? What if L wanted to do something other than what people fixated on the Big L of 1995 WANTED him to do? Would the Big L of 1999 been called a sellout or not “real hip-hop” enough?
That’s pretty much the main point of what I was saying. Even in the entry, I don’t knock those who have great love for hip-hop as a culture and its history and the less-”commercial” aspects of it. In fact, I’ve been called a backpacker before simply for not rockin’ with EVERYTHING that’s been construed as “hot”. I grew up knowing just as much about DITC as I did about Bad Boy… but for that same reason, that’s why I’m not just making some outside blanket statement on the crowd that champions the underground and hates everything else.
-D!
I remember seeing Big L on Lenox Ave., eating sunflower seeds, chilling with his peoples…and this was after he dropped his album. Dude was the neighborhood superstar and I was privileged to have seen him spit in a couple of cyphers in front of the park on 140th.
L had the potential to blow up as a mainstream artist without losing any of his underground cred. Imagine him on Roc A Fella with Hov, Bleek & Beans. Alotta shit would be different.
R.I.P. Big L
Helly Hansen suits & Columbia boots >>>
Danj, you did really understand my interpretation of Jays change. I mean, yes, he talked about money and hoes, but not every song. On reasonable doubt he says shyt like , “keep one eye open on CBS you see me stressed,” which was some deep shyt at the time. And a open display of his knowledge. That line right there makes me laugh at these “JayZ is illuminati” fanatics, the man gave you hints from the jump, you motherphuckers just didnt pay attention hard enough. But thats a tangent. My point is this, Jay did not make money and hoes the sum total of this arsenal until hard knock life.
Just go relisten to reasonable doubt, and then listen to the second album, and then listen to hard knock life, all to together, it will take about two hours or so. And you will see the difference, beleive me.
@Will…you got Jay’s verse wrong buddy. He said “..it gets tedious, so I keep one eye open like CBS, you see me stressed right?”. I’m not a “Jay Z is illuminati” believer but that line you quoted as proof that he isn’t is just plain quoted wrong. Money & hoes weren’t his album’s arsenal but it damn sure was his main go-to for his singles! I fuck with Jay lyrically, I love how he tries to expand hip hop horizons, but in my opionion…he lacks soul in his music. Aside from a few tracks, “you must love me”, “regrets”..a couple others..his body of work lacks REAL soul. He touches the surface but you can tell he’s still not confident enough to admit that..he’s unconfident @ times…he’s like Beyonce..too robotic. But thats why he’ll always strive but never recieve that LOVE that a Tupac or a Biggie or a Nas might get. Jay gets tons of respect..but not that love.
@ Mesainy
I know what verse I quoted. And I know my interpretation of the verse, both in terms of the time of its release and its connection to the whole song–relisten.
And Jay doesnt have soul? Are you serious? You have to be kidding. And dont get me wrong, I am not the biggest Jay fan, but he has more than enough soul. What about “My Mama Loves Me,” or “This Cant be Life,” or “Daddy where have you been,” or the Ithe Dynasty album? And thats just a few. And you cant compare Tupacs legacy to Jays, thats utterly unfair, in that, they had two different, no, totally different upbringings. Pac was raised by an ex-black panther and Jay was raised by a blue collar mother. So, their conditioning was totally different. That is to say, Pac was raised to be selfless and think of his people first, and Jay was raised to essentially–get ahead–nothing more, nothing less. And for Nas, thats a better comparison. And honestly, both their legacies are somewhat more similar than disimilar.
Nobody remembers when the MVP remix came out and heads were saying he was trying to crossover? That was when it was considered a bad thing (see EPMD “The Crossover”) I know I might get tons of shit for it, but to me, L was vicious spitta with a crazy flow but never seemed multi faceted enough to be a crossover star. He took Lord Finesse’s flow, added sicker wordplay, ran with it and took it to a level Finesse could never reach but still never seemed to go far enough to get a platinum plaque.
But hey, What do I know? I thought the same thing about Pun the first couple times I heard him and he made it big somehow.
I like this and I can say if he did blow up, he would’ve taken the route of BIG, Jay-Z and to some degree, Nas. Honestly, that was the era of Hip Hop, which was all about “keeping it real” and that was getting money. Hip Hop already passed the Red/Black & Green era so getting scrutinized by fans like LL before Mama Said..dropped probably would’ve happened but not too much because it was all about status. No one cared about concept of EPMD’s “Crossover”, Wu-Tang said it best with C.R.E.A.M. Dissed by underground heads is a given but his mainstream fanbase would’ve held him down just like they do Jay-Z today. As what was stated, he was practically there with his lyrics anyway !!
My two pennies.
I was at D&D studios with GZA & Afu-RA in ‘98. They were working on what would eventually be “Big Acts” for Afu’s album. While sitting in their little lounge with the vending machine that sold candy & boxes of Phillies with my man Respect we heard this record BOOMING out of the other studio. Heavy boom bap and sick strings over it. I’m hella intrigued by what and who’s beat this is and a few minutes later Big L comes out and exchanges pounds and what’s ups. Cool dude. The track I heard eventually surfaces as “Platinum Plus” on the posthumous “Big Picture” album. The album version has Kane on it. As it was told to me it was supposed to have Jay on it. L passed not less than two months after this meeting. So it never manifested. But can you imagine in 1999 a Big L & Jay, Primo produced banger? Danj I see where you were going with your theory and probably holds true. I mean if Big was still here I’m sure him and Puff would have had some major fall out and some wack line straddling joints as well.
PS – On the hood rumor side I heard this lead to Primo no longer working with Jay becaus he fronted on completing this joint after L died. This is uncomfirmed but does time with the lack of a Primo beat on further Jay albums.
UNLESS BIG L had a HARD KNOCK LIFE-like single under his belt…
Jay Z is not globetrottin with Beyonce without it. trust.
The Hard Knock life was big because everyone knew the original hook. Hip Hop heads to Soccer Moms and their children. Little white girls (probably doing the play at their local schools) in maine where noddin’ their heads to that beat.
@40, excellent inside story.
re: D&D at that time, any chance you ran into a white, Douglas Century? He wrote a book “Street Kingdom: Five Years Inside The Franklin Avenue Posse” that’s very interesting; I’m forgetting the name of the main dude– oh wait, it’s pseudonym, “Big K.”
There’s no way to get that totally right (Century was Jewish Canadian Ivy Leaguer w/ black girlfriend) but it’s the best sustained writing I’ve seen about the time/place and what a thin line it could be between art and jail.
re: the Big L legacy, yeah, it’s tough to call. To my ears, Biggie was a real poet, not political per se like Gil Scott Heron but unique, funny, he heard and said shit nobody else would and, he’d have continued to grow as artist– maybe with some missteps here and there, like Bob Dylan say.
Big L? Great mc but not that great, at least not yet.
***
Pac was raised by an ex-black panther and Jay was raised by a blue collar mother. So, their conditioning was totally different. That is to say, Pac was raised to be selfless and think of his people first, and Jay was raised to essentially–get ahead–nothing more, nothing less.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@Will– props to this comment. I’m not at all a Jay fan (with exceptions; and I actually think “Kingdom Come” might be his second best album– because it’s second realest, after “RD,” even if it ain’t close to OUR reality) but this is very perceptive, and important to keep in mind. Doesn’t make me LIKE Jay more but it explains his ethos, and limits.
@Will..we can agree to disagree about that Jay Z line proving that he’s not involved in any kind of illuminati shit. Shit..some conspiracy theorists will point to that same line to prove he is! Jay is in a whole different space now financially anyway than he was back then but thats a whole other discussion tho..
As far as the soul thing goes..dude has been in the industry for 20yrs give or take..when Bill Maher presented Jay Z with a book containing ALL his lyrics to every album..it was bigger than the bible! & u only were able to name 3 songs that showed soul? One of which, “This Can’t Be Life”, it was Scarface who REALLY showed what soul is when he changed his original verse & dedicated the whole new rhyme to his FRIENDS who had just lost their child. Face killed it when he said, “I could’ve rapped about my hard times in this song but heaven knows I would’ve been wrong!” Now thats some real shit…re-listen to that! And don’t forget Jay Z admitted himself that Kanye’s beats brought the soul to the Roc. Don’t get it twisted, just becuz his instrumentals & samples are soulful, does not make Jay Z a “soulful” artist. And you don’t have to be raised by a black panther to kick rhymes that don’t always sound selfish & materialistic..& I’m better than u cuz I have more money. The reason we love Big so much is cuz he was they type that would say, “Black & ugly as ever..however..! Big wasn’t scared 2 crack jokes on himself..that’s 1 of the reasons Big is so loved by his fans! Thats why Nas Ethered Jay when he said, “what you think you getting girls now cuz of your looks? Negro please!” lol That money had Jay thinking he was the “black Brad Pitt”!Nas had to reality check him! Jay has a tendency to be snobby..in his rhymes & in person. 1 more example for ya..remember Kanye’s remix to “Diamonds are forever” track with Jay? Kanye spent the whole song talking about the tragedy behind conflict diamonds and kids losing their limbs…then Jay comes in bragging about his favorite topic…HIMSELF! lol Don’t get me wrong, I fuck with Jay lyrically! He’s nasty! But Reasonable Doubt was his most soulful body of work. When I think of soulful/deep rappers, I think of Beanie, Scarface, Styles P, Nas…even DMX. Jay Z makes music my lyrical mind loves, those other artists make music that touches the heart tho. So I disagree..Nas’legacy is way different from Jay’s. Would Jay Z ever make a “Black Girl Lost” or ANY song on Nas’ The Lost Tapes album? I rest my case.
I don’t think Jay makes it his point to be that type of artist, but he has bared his soul on a number of songs. But it’s also true to what he said on ‘Ignorant Shit’- people criticize the dude all day for always rappin’ about how great he is and how much money he makes, etc. But he makes records about real-life shit and people skip right over those. Through Jay songs over the years, he’s offered a lot of looks into his personal life, his childhood, etc. Whenever he does do something with some form of message, even if it’s just a couple bars, it either gets swept under the rug or questioned for how genuine it was or wasn’t. But what are the songs that get the most attention? Those are the ones his detractors are quick to bring up, and rarely do they ever bring up the ones where he spoke introspectively. He may not have been all Tupac wit’ it, but I don’t feel he’s done one album where he didn’t offer some form of insight as well.
It’s actually a flip of Nas’ career, when you think about it. Because a lot of Nas’ mega-devoted fans nowadays like to gloss over some of his more ‘commercial’ moments in favor of the introspective, meaningful songs… even though while he was doing those ‘commercial’ songs, that’s all niggas used to complain about him. And then all at once, those who are still caught up on Jay vs. Nas neglect to acknowledge that Nas has practically done almost ALL the same exact things they criticize Jay for.
Rap fans are weird sometimes. Myself included, but yeah. Weirdos, the whole bunch of us.
-D!
I always wonder if Jay-Z would’ve been as big if L were on the scene…. Cam sure as hell wouldn’t have. Go check that 6 min freestyle from Stretch and Bobbito (ithink?) where Jay was left tounge-tied while L spit flames. I think the real question is: Would Hov have been willing to share that spotlight?
DanJ,
Maybe Hip Hop weirdness is more a function of time and grouping than substance. For instance, I here a song by some artist within a block of other hot mess. Sounds terrible. Radio stations do this to get people to subliminally think of a particular song in a certain category. When I hear the particular song by itself or in a playlist I created , I get a totally different feeling about it.
As for time, sometimes artist drop their songs at the wrong time. happens and I’ve seen many worthy artist drown because they mistimed a release.
I guess it’s all a matter of context.
@Danj
I co-sign your most recent response. lol
Because Nas’ made so many commercial songs, and I tend to believe his conscious songs are somewhat a force of habit. Like, every expects him to be deep and philosophical, so he has to include at least one conscious song on an album, and this song tends to sound contrived.
@Messainy
Yes, Jay has said many a insightful verse. Things as simple as on “Streets are Talking” where he says, “Old man told to argue with fools/From a distance you cant tell who is who.” Shyt, that whole song had so many tidbits. Shyt like that is so deep without saying too much. Or, on “Never Change” he says, “Im like a dog/I never speak but I understand,” that shyt was so deep and soulful without being all preachy and shyt. That is why you may Jay isnt soulful, because his shyt doesnt sound like a quote from some scripture, like say a Nas. His shyt is street oriented knowledge. Things you pick up as you mature, whereas with the scripture deep rap shyt, I can pick up any book, as I have in the past, read it and leave it to my own interpretation. Or, I can counsel with an elder on the texts’ multiple meanings and interpretations. Some things cannot be learned from books, period. Some things have to learned through experience, and experience alone.
On Jays songs, you have to listen and connect every dot, from beginning to end. And thats why I pointed out “Can I Live,” you have to listen to the whole song and then connect the dots, not just a that one line, the whole song. Now, for all the Illumanati shyt, thats up for others to ponder upon, in my opinion. Truthfully, I dont give a shyt. No one man, or being, can change the course of life, that is, except for God. But thats for another discussion.
I can point many more songs where Jay bares his soul. For example, “Youll Understand,” or “Where Im From,” or “D-Evils,” or even “Hard Knock Life.” And one more thing, how do you define the word “soul”? For me, soulful means anything that touches your inner-being, moves your thought pattern, or create a ‘ahha’ moment, like you finally understand a new theory. Soul is a very subjective term. For some, soul can mean anything that moves your emotion, or tugs are you heart strings. For me, myself, soul means anything that digs deep into my mind to pull out an age-old memory.
Now, one thing I have agree with you on, is the mega slept on album that is the great “Lost Tapes.” I still get kind of irked by the lack of exposure that album had. And its greatness is mainly due to the fact that a majority of the tracks were “throw away” tracks, tracks not to the liking of Columbia Records, which somewhat skewd my view of Nas and his ability to be uncompromising–and stand his ground. Shyt the nicca was releasing bullshyt around the time these tracks were recorded (i.e., Oochie Wally).
By the way, on the book of rhymes Maher gave Jay, I bet the book was rhymes on one side of the page, and the font was at least 12. Shyt, if they transcribed that book to resemble the bible in font and structure, that shyt wouldve been as thick as a pamphlet. lol
And, honestly, this is how I rank everyones verse on “This Cant be Life”:
1. Beans
2. Jay
3. Face
And I put Face last because, yes it was meaningful, but he did not out do Beans or Jay. Shyt, and if my memory serves me correctly, many mixtapes, or DJs, at the time used to not include his verse in their mix. lol…They would ahve Jay and Beans first and then cut to the next song. Seriously.
And, in closing, I know this isnt the most popular notion. But, Jay beat Nas in that battle. Yes, Nas’ song was more entertaining, yet entertaining for the wrong reasons. It was entertaining because it was funny, not factual, or at least many parts. Yes, some of it was true, but the rest was that nicca cracking jokes on beat, thats it. Now, Jays verses were all honest and true, “Nicca you didnt live the life/You witnessed it at your folks pad/Went home and wrote it in your notepad.” GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK ASS HEADS: NAS WAS NOT A STREET NICCA, I REPEAT, NAS WAS NOT A STREET NICCA. He was your average kid from NYC who most likely witnessed more than needeed, as many other kids who grew up in NYC did. But, thats what made him great, in that, he observed and reported the daily goingons with clear percision. He was a poet. But once the nicca started to use ‘I’ in his rhymes too much, as in using the first-person stance, niccas started to question his credibility. There is a difference between saying, “And my friends sell crack,” on “Represent,” to “My man put me up on a share/one-fourth of a square,” on “Street Dreams.” Do you understand what Im saying. There is a difference. In one rhyme hes an observer, and in the other rhyme hes the participant, when in all actuality, he was never a true participant, yet perpetuates the same poison he dreams to escape, that is, leaving the projects for a nice big house in the sticks.
And, yes, you are correct when you say, “And you don’t have to be raised by a black panther to kick rhymes that don’t always sound selfish & materialistic,” but you do need some type of life-long conditioning to escape the trappings of mega-stardom. Shyt, who knows what you will experience on that level. For example, in 2005, I was in Brooklyn and I read in the papers how they were going to displaces thousands of people to build Jays, or shall I say the Nets stadium. Now, on one Jay could intervene and say, “Hey, this is my old neighborhood, in fact, I remember the block you plan to demolish for this stadium. Can you please choose another location? So as to limit the amount of people displaced by this new project,” but then on another hand Jay could say, “Those people will be okay, in fact, Im doing them a favor by freeing from permanent, abject poverty, the same poverty they cannot escape on their own, or at least without some outside forces. Plus, I will provide the area with more employment opportunities (This is where I rationallize my wrong). And, anyways, I need this money, holla!” Now, it will take years of tutelage to over come basic capitalistic urges, go read Karl Marx; I am not an endorser of his ideology but I do understand. Do you get my point? Being absolutely conscious requires years of training and conditioning. So, no, a JayZ type of person is not going to risk his position to save anyone except himself. In the words of Kurtis Blow, “These are the breaks.” And, honestly, that is why Pac died, he was utterly uncompromising, or at least on the surface. But, had he lived, he wouldve compromised to some degree. Shyt, just listen to some of the songs on “Til the End of Time,” and you can hear a man coming to terms with reality. A sobering reality. Or, go listen to his last interviews, where he clearly states, “That you cant save everyone, but at least provide the tools.”
With that, Im out.
P.S. No comment on Big’s consciousness…cant disrespect the dead. lol
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